Ron Reigns:
Welcome and thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption with Kelly Rourke-Scarry and me, Ron Reigns, where we delve into the issues of adoption from every angle of the adoption triad.
Speaker 2:
Do what’s best for your kid and for yourself, because if you can’t take care of yourself, you’re definitely not going to be able to take care of that kid, and that’s not fair.
Speaker 3:
I know that my daughter would be well taken care of with them.
Speaker 4:
Don’t have an abortion. Give this child a chance.
Speaker 5:
All I could think about was needing to save my son.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
My name is Kelly Rourke-Scarry. I’m the Executive Director, President and Co-Founder of Building Arizona Families adoption agency, the Donna K. Evans Foundation and creator of the You Before Me campaign. I have a bachelor’s degree in family studies and human development and a master’s degree in education with an emphasis in school counseling. I was adopted at the age of three days, born to a teen birth mother, raised in a closed adoption and reunited with my birth mother in 2007. I have worked in the adoption field for over 15 years.
Ron Reigns:
And I’m Ron Reigns. I’ve worked in radio since 1999. I was the co-host of two successful morning shows in Prescott, Arizona. Now I work for my wife, who’s an adoption attorney, and I’m able to combine these two great passions and share them on this podcast.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
If you are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy and you are considering adoption, it’s very important to choose the right adoption agency. You need to find an agency that is a good match for you, your personality, what type of adoption you’re wanting to do. There are alternatives to abortion, and adoption agencies can help. We do get phone calls from women that are pregnant, that are calling, wanting information about abortion and we promote adoption. And so we talked to them about all of the advantages of adoption so that they can become more educated than they were before they pick up the phone.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Some things as a birth mother that are important to consider is the following; is the agency that you’re considering local, will you be able to have that face-to-face meeting? It is great to be able to pick up the phone and call somebody if they’re on the same time zone as you. That’s something to think about. The other thing is, is that who’s going to hold your hand in those really hard moments? How are you going to put all of your trust into an entity that you can’t look at face to face?
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
How are you going to have somebody go with you to the doctor and to really build a rapport? Because you can only go so far over the phone. It’s like having a long distance relationship. Everything’s great because it’s not real life. It’s not real. You’re not dealing with day to day struggles,
Ron Reigns:
Heaven forbid an issue come in.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right, right. Sure.
Ron Reigns:
That’s when it’s going to test whether that relationship will span.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
It will. So when you meet the adopted family for the first time, if you’re working with an out of state agency, are they going to have a fill in, is somebody going to be there, are you going to be alone? So that’s really something to think about is, is to have somebody who’s local so that you can work side-by-side with them.
Ron Reigns:
That makes a lot of sense.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. I try to, by the way, Ron. I do try.
Ron Reigns:
I don’t even know how this works. Say a birth mother in Arizona wants to be represented by an agency. Can she choose an out of state agency to do that?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yes.
Ron Reigns:
I didn’t know that because I’ve only dealt with birth mothers who are dealing with either Building Arizona Families or my wife, right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right, absolutely. Yes, they can. They can choose an out of state agency.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Again, it’s something to really evaluate.
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
What happens is outside agencies of the State of Arizona will advertise in Arizona. And so a birth mother may not realize that they’re out of state until they’re already in the program.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So you’ll want to know too if the agency has an office or they’re telling you they want to meet in a public location about placing a baby for adoption. You really need to have a confidentiality of being in an office. I know that our licensing, we’re licensed by the Department of Children’s Safety and they have said over and over again, it needs to be in the confines of your office because this is confidential information that you’re discussing.
Ron Reigns:
You don’t want it out in the public. You don’t want to meet at a Circle K parking lot.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
You don’t want to meet at McDonald’s. Right. You also want to know how long the agency has been in practice. An agency that just opened their doors last year may not be as experienced as an agency that has been in practice for 15 years. There’s a difference in working with a seasoned professional versus somebody who’s just starting. Let me give you an example. So when you go to a doctor, if you have a new doctor who just graduated and got her license and you go in with an ailment, what I have found personally is that new doctors will start ordering tons of tests because they don’t have the medical experience to rely upon. Whereas if you go to a seasoned doctor, they do an exam and they can gauge from there and then order the tests that are absolutely necessary, versus the whole battery.
Ron Reigns:
Right. So you’re only getting two or three tests possibly.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Versus 10.
Ron Reigns:
Yeah.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. So having dealt with somebody who is confident in their ability to understand what’s going on and be able to execute what needs to happen, I think is vital in something as important as your health or an adoption. Wanting to know if you will have your own case manager or sharing one with the adoptive parents, it is my opinion and my opinion only that I believe that’s a conflict of interest.
Ron Reigns:
To not represent, but to case manage for both sides of it.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right.
Ron Reigns:
Yeah.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Now that doesn’t mean, like Sarah, one of our workers had talked about in the past, does that mean that she can never take a birth mother to the doctor, that’s not what I’m referring to. The ultimate case manage responsibilities. So in the hospital situation where the case manager for the birth mother is there and then the case manager for the adoptive parents is also there. That way they each have their own advocate. Again, that doesn’t mean they can’t jump sides and help out. But as a whole, the practice is that each side is represented by a different case manager.
Ron Reigns:
Right. And again, that makes a lot of sense. It really does.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I always say if there’s ever an issue, like the birth mother wants something that the adoptive family isn’t in favor of or vice versa, and there’s conflict between the two workers, I actually love that because that shows me that they’re advocating for their client.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And then I can step in and help resolve the issue.
Ron Reigns:
Right, kind of mediate between the two.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
But I want them to stand up and I encourage that. Our aftercare service is available. That’s something, again, our agency does offer. I think it’s imperative. I think that just because a birth mother has had a baby in place for adoption, having that service is critical because you never know when you’re going to need it. Like our moms can deliver, place your baby for adoption, they can take a break, go on sabbatical, take a vacation and come back when they’re ready to deal with any issues that arise. Not having that leaves you kind of out there floundering, not having a real resource to go to. We also will provide counseling services with the same counselor that they saw during their pregnancy at no cost to them as well. So if they come back and they say, “You know what, I’m struggling, I really need some help,” we’ll pay for them to go in and have some sessions with Chris. So I think that’s important as well.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Also, you can ask the agency if they can provide references from previous clients. I know when you come into our office, we have a TV playing and it’s testimonials of women that have gone through the program. And so a lot of times I’ll meet with one of our new clients and she’ll ask a question about, she’s like, “Oh, I saw it on the video. I didn’t know that,” or, “Oh, wow, that really made me feel better.” So we always have that playing so they can see what this is really like.
Ron Reigns:
And what other people who have been with you. Now, will you connect them directly if they’d like to speak to somebody, or is that not something that’s a good idea?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Not directly. We have had a birth mother who has placed with us and we haven’t had her sometimes come in and talk with a case manager there about her experience if she chooses to do so.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. Another question that I would ask is how quickly can you make an appointment? When you decide you are ready to do an adoption plan, many times you’re ready to start then. You’re doing it, you may be homeless. You’ve made an incredibly difficult decision and when you’re ready to move forward, you’re ready to move forward.
Ron Reigns:
Right. You don’t want to be put on a waiting list and say, “We might show up at Tuesday between 2:00 AM and 6:00 PM.”
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right. So yes.
Ron Reigns:
Like the cable company or whatever.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Exactly. So for instance, with us, when you call, sometimes we do same day appointments, sometimes we do next day appointments, depending on what’s going on.
Ron Reigns:
Maybe what time of day it is when they call, certainly.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. And that way you’re able to get right in and you won’t be getting off the phone without having your appointment.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
You want to ask what type of services will be provided. So whether or not you’ll be able to receive counseling services, whether you’ll be receiving transportation to and from your medical appointments, if the agency is going to help you get on access or whatever state medical insurance you’re eligible for, what type of financial assistance that they can provide, if they offer both open and closed adoptions. There was a huge movement about 10 years ago, where some agencies said, we are only doing open adoptions now, we only do open adoptions.
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And I actually don’t believe in that stance.
Ron Reigns:
Right. You’re pro open adoptions.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
100%.
Ron Reigns:
But there are those situations.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
There are circumstances where I don’t think that a woman should be forced to choose only an open adoption.
Ron Reigns:
And if she’s just not comfortable with that, then she has that right to make that choice, certainly.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right. So again, I am a huge proponent. And when I have a woman who wants a closed adoption, absolutely will honor her wishes. She and I usually talk about it and I make sure she understands what an open and a semi-open adoption is. And then after listening to her story, when she wants to do the closed, and that’s fine, we’ll support that and we’ll empower her to make that decision. And that’s a big deal. Another question you may want to ask is if they have adoptive families, both in-state and out-of-state for them to choose. What we have found is some agencies only work with out of state entities, whereas our agency does both. We have both in-state families that are waiting and out of state families.
Ron Reigns:
Now for a birth mother’s perspective, why would, first of all, an in-state be preferable to some, and then I’m going to ask, obviously why would out of state be something they would prefer?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
It may be that they want an open adoption, but they have this fear of bumping into them at the grocery store, which has never, ever happened to my knowledge.
Ron Reigns:
Right. I grew up in Glendale and still to this day, I think I’ve seen one person on the streets since high school, which was many years ago. Once.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right. And so that doesn’t happen. The other reason is they may not like the State of Arizona. They may not think it’s a place that they would like the child raised in.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
We have a lot of families from Kentucky and if you’ve ever been to Kentucky, it’s beautiful. Rolling greens, the white picket fences with the horses. It’s gorgeous.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And they may just want a different climate.
Ron Reigns:
For their child.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yes. They may want their child to grow up in a place that actually has four seasons. And so, yeah, we get it all the time.
Ron Reigns:
And so maybe in state, they would maybe see the actual adoptive family and the child a little more personally and maybe arrange visits and stuff.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Sure. And you can actually still do visits with out-of-state families.
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
They’re not as frequent, obviously. They’re usually maybe once a year for the first three years. And after three years, they determine where it goes from there.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
But just because they’re out of state doesn’t mean they can’t do visits.
Ron Reigns:
Okay. It’s just easier if they’re in state.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Correct.
Ron Reigns:
Okay, fair enough.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
It is easier. And so I would say the birth mothers that really want that close bond, that really tight knit relationship, are going to be more apt to choose an in-state family.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
How does the agency handle communication after placement? We do get this question quite a bit, and we actually have a situation right now where the birth mother is not happy with the follow-through of the adoptive parents regarding the after placement communication. And that is something that we do stand behind. Not only as an agency do we jump in and try to remedy the situation, we bring in our agency attorney who happens to be your wife.
Ron Reigns:
I know her.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And a great lady. And together we work with her and with the adoptive family to remedy the situation and to get everybody back on the same page and understand what has been agreed upon and fix that situation. I think that the agency really needs to meet the needs of the birth mothers first and foremost, as an agency, to believe in the women and their right to choose the type of adoption journey that’s best for them and their unborn baby. So for those of you that have questions about our agency, we are located in Phoenix, Arizona. We do have an office located off of the Black Canyon Access Road in Phoenix. And we currently have been doing adoptions for just about 15 years.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
We definitely separate birth mother case managers from adoptive family case managers. Our aftercare program is the Donna K. Evans Foundation, located in the same block of buildings right next to our office. We do provide references and we do do same day and next day appointments. We also are available 24/7, including myself. And yes, I do get calls 24/7.
Ron Reigns:
Yeah, even while we’re trying to do a podcast.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Exactly. We do offer living expenses for those who qualify. We have both in-state and out of state families. And we actually use a program called ChildConnect for letters, pictures, and communication after placement, which is its own entity that you can log onto a computer and communicate with the adoptive family that way as well.
Ron Reigns:
See pictures, the whole nine yards.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
The whole bit, absolutely.
Ron Reigns:
You can get updates.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Absolutely.
Ron Reigns:
That’s awesome.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
It is our job to really help a birth mother throughout her adoption journey in every aspect relating to her pregnancy and her adoption choice. And this can take on a global approach because adoption and pregnancy can affect every area of her being and of her life. So when you’re looking to choose an agency, I think the most important thing is to look at these factors, talk to the agency and then go with your gut instinct, see where you make the connection. And ultimately know that adoption is a beautiful choice and you’re doing something amazing.
Olivia:
My name is Olivia. I’m a birth mom. I gave my baby up for adoption about two weeks ago and I feel like it’s the best decision for me and my baby. It was hard to make that decision, but I found this really good agency, Building Arizona Families, and they have been a godsend. They are good people and they do good things for people that need help. And I’m glad that God sent me to them because this would have been a really scary, lonely journey if I hadn’t had them with me. They’ve helped me get back on my feet. They helped me find myself and know that I made the best choice for my baby. And the adoptive parents are awesome, they’re good people. I’m glad that God put them in my life for my son. And I know that he’s going to be loved and taken care of and that’s peace of mind for me.
Olivia:
The thing I like best about my adoptive family is that they’re Christian and they are so loving. I have a good rapport with them. I know we’ve only met each other two weeks ago, but we tell each other we love each other when we say bye. And I know that I’m going to have a relationship with them and my son in the future. And that makes me feel really good. When you do place your baby for adoption, it is extending your family because it’s an open adoption and you get two more wonderful people in your family. And I don’t know, it’s neat the way that it works out. And I’m very happy for making that choice because I knew I couldn’t do for my child right from the beginning, what I needed to be doing for him. So these people are a good thing.
Olivia:
The way I learned about Building Arizona Families is I was looking at Catholic social services and their number popped up right at the top of the search. And it’s the first number I called and they said, “We’ll come pick you up today. We’ll do the intake right now.” And they picked me up. They brought me in. That meant a lot. I feel very safe with the agency there. They make you feel really good about your choice because it’s a choice that’s hard. The thing I would tell a woman that’s pregnant about adoption is that it’s not a selfish decision, that it’s a selfless decision. And that if you know that you can’t do for your child what you want to do for your child when you have them, that that’s the best thing you can do for them is give them to a loving family.
Olivia:
When I started the program, yeah, I did feel when I first came in, I did feel alone and I felt very unsure about what I was going to be doing after coming in and doing my intake. And with Building Arizona Families, no, I didn’t feel alone. I felt very taken care of in a sense. I felt like everything was going to be okay and I still feel that way. I feel that these are people that I’m going to have a relationship with for the rest of my life because of the gift that they gave me.
Ron Reigns:
We have a pregnancy crisis hotline available 24/7 by phone or text at (623) 695-4112, or you can call our toll free number, 1-800-340-9665. We can make an immediate appointment with you to get you to a safe place, provide food and clothing and started on creating an Arizona adoption plan or give you more information. You can check out our blogs on our website at azpregnancyhelp.com. Thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption, written and produced by Kelly Rourke-Scarry and edited by me, Ron Reigns. If you enjoy this podcast, rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts. And as always, thanks to Grapes for letting us use their song, I Don’t Know, as our theme song. Join us next time for Birth Mother Matters in Adoption. For Kelly Rourke-Scarry, I’m Ron Reigns, and we’ll see you then.