Ron Reigns:
Welcome, and thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption with Kelly Rourke-Scarry and me, Ron Reigns, where we delve into the issues of adoption from every angle of the adoption triad.
Speaker 2:
Do what’s best for your kid and for yourself, because if you can’t take care of yourself, you’re definitely not going to be able to take care of that kid and that’s not fair.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I know that my daughter would be well taken care of with them.
Speaker 4:
Don’t have an abortion. Give this child a chance.
Speaker 5:
All I could think about was needing to save my son.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
My name is Kelly Rourke-Scarry. I’m the executive director, president and co-founder of Building Arizona Families Adoption Agency, The Donna K. Evans Foundation and creator of the You Before Me campaign. I have a bachelor’s degree in family studies and human development and a master’s degree in education with an emphasis in school counseling. I was adopted at the age of three days, born to a teen birth mother, raised in a closed adoption and reunited with my birth mother in 2007. I have worked in the adoption field for over 15 years.
Ron Reigns:
And I’m Ron Reigns. I’ve worked in radio since 1999. I was the co-host of two successful morning shows in Prescott, Arizona. Now I work for my wife who’s an adoption attorney and I’m able to combine these two great passions and share them on this podcast.
Ron Reigns:
Due to rating of this podcast, we’ll be using very general language. Please note that this episode may contain language not suitable for children. Since this podcast is about adoption, the precursor is pregnancy and the precursor to pregnancy is a lack of, or in effective use of, birth control. Therefore, we feel that this topic is one that we must address. According to WebMD, birth control can help people decide when they want to have children. There are many types to choose from including different types of barrier, medications and traditional methods that need no additional resources. Effectiveness varies and often depends on how carefully the method is applied. Only a male condom offers any protection against sexually transmitted diseases.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Some of the birth control myths that I talk about with women when they come into our program, there is a lot of information on the internet, in doctor’s offices, there’s folklore, I should say, that people have passed on from generation to generation. So, I really want to dispel a couple of these. Birth control is not 100%. The only 100% chance that you won’t get pregnant is if you’re abstinent. So, that’s the only 100% chance. You can get pregnant the first time you have sex, you can also get pregnant while breastfeeding.
Ron Reigns:
I didn’t know that that was a myth that you couldn’t if you were-
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Oh…
Ron Reigns:
Really?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yes, yes.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Sometimes when you’re breastfeeding you don’t get your cycle. And so, because you’re not getting your monthly cycle some women think that they are not able then to get pregnant because they’re not having their monthly cycle so they don’t realize that they’re still ovulating.
Ron Reigns:
I see. Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And lastly, condoms do have an expiration date. Just about everything at this point in our lives has an expiration date. Car seats, water bottles…
Ron Reigns:
You have to look at it this way, anything that’s like a latex or rubber kind of material, it will dry out. It will become brittle. And so, you have to look at a condom the same way and know that, okay, that is not going to stay the same consistency over time even if it stays wrapped it’s not good forever.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right, right. I want to save prophylactics or condoms, whichever word you want to use, for the end when we’re talking about birth control methods because that’s the one I really want to dive into. I think that is the most controversial in terms of studies and rates of effectiveness. And that’s something I really want to dive into because that is what I would say is the most commonly used birth control method for women that we work with if they’re using a birth control method. So, I looked at two different studies and one of them was the CDC and the other one was money.usnews.com. And I know that sounds funny that you would look at birth control from that perspective, but financially I wanted to see what things were costing. And obviously when we go through these, understand that the cost and effectiveness of birth controls, even though it’s surprising, the cost is going to depend on if you have insurance, what the insurance will cover and where you’re residing in the United States.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
There’s a higher cost of living in some areas versus other areas and that will also influence the cost of birth control. So, what’s so interesting is in one study we see birth control pills have a 91% effectiveness rate. Whereas the typical failure rate is 7%, so they’re saying really 93%. So, you want to look at that as 91 to 93% effective for birth control pills. That’s not the numbers that I remember from when I was in high school. I remember those being up in the 98/99, I do not remember it being as low as 91 to 93.
Ron Reigns:
Why the change?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
User error.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Also, I would say with birth control pills it’s a hormone in most situations, it’s a hormone supplement or what have you, I’m not a doctor. We need to preface that, neither one of us are doctors. But you also need to find out which one works the best with your body and which one your body responds to the best. And so, if you have one that is not working as effectively as another one may work, I’m sure that plays into the effectiveness as well. An intrauterine device, IUD, they’re saying that there is a 99% effectiveness rate. Oh, going back to birth control pills, zero to $50 a month is the standard cost.
Ron Reigns:
Okay, is the price.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
An IUD, they’re saying a 99% effectiveness rate and the CDC pretty much agrees with that. They last for three to 12 years, depending on what type of device you’re using and they can cost anywhere from zero to 1300. The ones that we have seen and we have paid for through our adoption agency, a lot of them I think were Mirena and I think it was around $500. Don’t quote me on that amount, but right around 500.
Ron Reigns:
Now, that $500 is a one time cost for the three to 12 years, depending on what you-
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Mirena usually lasts, I think, around five, but yes.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
The birth control shot Depo-Provera, you get these quarterly and they’re about $30 to $75 and they have anywhere, according to the two differences in percentages, a 94% to 96% effectiveness rate. The one thing that’s very positive, in my opinion, working with women with unplanned pregnancies is the shot. You don’t have to remember to take a pill every day. You just have to remember to go get your shot quarterly. And so, if you can remember every three months, that’s great, but a lot of women come into our office pregnant because they forgot.
Ron Reigns:
That’s fair.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
The NuvaRing has a 91% effectiveness rate up to a 93% and that costs $30 to $35 and has to be replaced every three weeks. They have a birth control patch. That one is, a monthly supply cost between $30 to $35. Effectiveness, we’ve seen the rates from 91% to 93%. So this next… Actually, we’ll skip the condom and come back to that. The diaphragm has an 88% effectiveness rate that cost between 15 to $50 and then you have to also use a spermicide which is an extra seven to $18, and the failure rate they’re saying is 87% to 88%.
Ron Reigns:
Or the effectiveness rate. Right?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right. Sterilization has, they’re saying, basically it’s agreed upon it’s about a 99% effectiveness rate. It’s different costs for men and women. Men typically it’s about a thousand dollars and women it’s about $6,000. Now, what’s so interesting is that this is a 99% effectiveness rate. And I have had, I’ve worked with so far this year three women that had their tubes tied and they were pregnant.
Ron Reigns:
And are now pregnant. Wow.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And we have the medical records so it wasn’t like they just thought that they had had their tubes tied. They had their tubes tied and it didn’t take. There is an implant that you can get in your arm that is about 99% effective according to what we’ve read. So, that’s something as well. Spermicides is something that is a 21% failure rate, so you’re looking at it is 79%. The sponge had a failure rate of 14%, so that would be a 86% success rate for women who’ve never had a baby. And if you’ve had a baby before it drops all the way down to 73% effectiveness. Like I said, in reading this, I think in comparison to years ago or decades ago, I think they were looking at if you use it perfectly every single time, whatever method you’re using, if you’re taking the pill every day, if you’re making sure that you get your shot on time every three months then you’re going to have a much higher rate.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
But because there are failure rates, that’s why the numbers are so much lower, is because people are not taking the pill daily as they’re supposed to. And they’re then doubling up trying to make up for that lost pill. And so, because there are failure rates, it doesn’t mean that these methods of birth control are not as effective as they used to be, it just means that they have now factored into what in real time is happening.
Ron Reigns:
So, a lot of it is a lack of education on how to use these different methods, as well as maybe a lack of discipline on how to use these methods.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Sure, however you want to get there, user error. Yeah.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. So, in looking at the prophylactic or condom rate, the rates look like 85% to 87% effectiveness. You can get these free from clinics or you can pay as high as $2.50 cents for one, I’ve never seen one that high but that was what one of them was quoted as. But that number 85% to 87%, that’s, I mean, it’s going to rain at 85% to 87%. It’s going to rain. That’s pretty high. And so the chances, in terms of it being a failure, which is the 13% to 15%, sorry, that’s concerning.
Ron Reigns:
And I think, again, a lot of it is misinformation, misuse, not using it properly. I remember when I was young, it was like our, I don’t remember if they were teachers or whatever, but they were constantly reminding us that two doesn’t work better than one. And so at some point, there must have been that thought out there that, oh, well if I use two, if I double up I’m even more safe. It actually makes it less safe and less protective.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
They say when used properly, male condoms are about 98% effective, according to WebMD.
Ron Reigns:
Which is really good, right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Which is really, really good. But 18 out of 20 women whose partners don’t use them correctly could wind up pregnant.
Ron Reigns:
Exactly.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
18 women out of a hundred, I’m sorry, 18 women out of 100 is really high. So, some not commonly known facts about condoms according to the CDC are, if you’re using a female condom don’t also use a male condom because that can cause tearing. As you said, not to use more than one at one time, and then not to use oil based lubricants like massage oils, baby oils, lotions, or petroleum with latex condoms because they’ll weaken it causing it to tear or break. In really diving deeper into the prophylactic use and some of the information that has been done, I really want to get this out there because we want to prevent unplanned pregnancies. We want to be there to help you if you have one, but we want you to be safe.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So, in looking at the Human Life International, they had some information that I again found astounding. According to their statistics, one in 14 uses results in a condom failure. The United Nation Population Fund and other global condom promoters claim that condoms have a 98% success rate instead of an 85% success rate documented in real world studies. So, there’s that discrepancy and that’s what we’re talking about. There’s that. Teen pregnancy in the US is still at really high levels, 750,000 annually. And a lot of abortions are being performed.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
All right, another fact is they cannot protect against diseases spread by skin to skin in contact like herpes or HPV. Back in the day, back when we were younger I always believed that condoms were the fool-proof birth control. That was the go-to, you were not going to have an error or an oops if you used one. So this was really just shocking to me. Was it shocking to you when you were going through it?
Ron Reigns:
I guess not because I had always heard for years that not only are they not a 100% but most of the error is from the operator if they’re using it improperly. So, I guess it was really impressed upon me that the effectiveness of them was mostly due to how you used it and if you used it properly.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
According to birthcontrol.com, 18 out of 100 people will get pregnant each year if they use a condom as their only birth control method. So in diving further, some of the condom use errors are late application, early removal, unrolling it before use, failing to remove any air, using them inside out, them being punctured with a sharp object, not checking them for damage, using them twice, storing them incorrectly, having them break. So, there’s lots of ways that these are not as effective. This is an uncomfortable topic for many people to discuss. And again, we’re trying to keep this very low key because we understand that families may be listening, but these are really important topics to dive into and do research on because you want to make sure that you understand what people are doing wrong so that you don’t make the same mistake. The whole point of us studying history is to not repeat the same mistakes over and over again.
Ron Reigns:
Correct.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Well with birth control, we are making the same mistakes over and over again, and we’re not learning because we’re not teaching everybody around us. And we need to make sure that we are teaching people like Dr. Owen Morgan did at ASU in his human sexuality class, because that is key to preventing pregnancies. So then, we can take abortion off the table as what people believe is a third choice when they have an unplanned pregnancy rather than parenting or placing the child for adoption. If we can cut down on unplanned pregnancies, then we can help remove abortion and that’s a big deal and very important. So my takeaway from doing this research and learning more about prophylactic use is that if that is your birth control choice, then I would make sure that you have all the information on how to use them effectively and properly.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And really make sure that that’s the best option for you and take every precaution necessary, because 15% is pretty high if you think about it. I mean, you’re talking about lives here. We’re not talking about raining outside, we’re talking about lives and that’s what’s most important. And when we talk about lives, we’re talking about babies and having an unplanned or crisis pregnancy is something that can be devastating for a woman or a man to experience and it can put you in a position that you don’t want to be in and making choices that you don’t necessarily want to have to make. What would be your best advice?
Ron Reigns:
It all comes down to a lot of what we’ve just kind of been repeating, but open discussion, proper information and educating yourself. And that goes for anybody with almost any topic too, it’s better to know more than to know less and as long as that information is the correct proper information.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right. You want to go to reputable sites. You want to make sure that you’re getting credible sources and yes, it may be uncomfortable and when you look at your child and you think, “I don’t want to have this conversation with my child,” it is a better conversation to have than the alternative.
Ron Reigns:
Absolutely.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
That’s what a lot of parents don’t see in that moment is sitting down and having that dreaded birds and the bees talk, yeah it’s uncomfortable. It’s awkward. You don’t want to think you’re poisoning your child’s mind and you are putting ideas in their head, but after speaking with so many pregnant teen parents that are now grandparents, they wish they’d had those talks. They wish that they had really gone into those topics of birth control and preaching abstinence. But as a parent if you’ve done everything you can to prevent your child from having sex and that’s your goal, and that’s most parents’ goals, probably all parents goals. If you can’t stop them, then protect them. And the argument with that is, “Oh no, I’m going to make sure if I think my child is going to engage in that, then I am going to homeschool them and I’m going to lock them in their room.” And that’s just not reality.
Ron Reigns:
Well, we’ve talked many times in the past about planet reality versus planet fantasy. And a lot of these parents are living in planet fantasy where they don’t think there’s any possibility of their child ever doing anything like this, but the reality is much different than that. There’s pressures out there, and there always have been, for kids to do things that you wouldn’t approve of or agree with. And not to say they’re out there doing all of them, but your best option is to teach them the right way whether it’s through you or through your school, those kids need to be taught.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
They do. And I think, again, speaking on behalf of all of the moms of teen moms, if you have done everything you can do, you’ve educated your child, you have provided every resource that you can and you have a child that experiences a teen pregnancy, there’s not going to be any going back thinking, “Oh, I wish I would’ve. I regret not,” because you’ve done everything you can. As parents, what’s so hard is there’s only so much you can do to prevent your child from experiencing heartache or pain or misery and making bad choices. Kids make bad choices. And unfortunately, as parents we want to prevent that from happening and we try and we do everything we can, but not educating your child because it’s an uncomfortable topic or because you don’t believe that your child is going to engage in an activity that you have told them over and over again not to, I think is unrealistic.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And again, this is speaking, I’m talking about this from a take of somebody who speaks with women about unplanned pregnancies every day, all day long. And women that have had their tubes tied and wind up pregnant, that’s so unfortunate because you think that there’s no way, there’s no way. I’ve had three this year.
Ron Reigns:
Three this year alone.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
This year alone.
Ron Reigns:
That’s unbelievable.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And one thing to remember too, is that at the end of the day, we’re all just doing the best that we can. So, I’m apologizing if this podcast has in any way offended anybody, know that we are, again, going on our platform of education. It’s paramount and we are doing everything we can to promote healthy people. We’re trying to show that there are amazing alternatives to abortion and adoption is a beautiful and loving choice.
Ron Reigns:
Thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption. If you’re listening and you’re dealing with an unplanned pregnancy and want more information about adoption, Building Arizona Families is a local Arizona adoption agency and available 24/7 by phone or text at (623) 695-4112. That’s (623) 695-4112. We can make an immediate appointment with you to get started on creating an Arizona adoption plan or just get you more information. You can also find out more information about Building Arizona Families on their website at AZpregnancyhelp.com. Thanks also go out to Grapes for allowing us to use their song I Dunno as our theme song. Birth Mother Matters in Adoption was written and produced by Kelly Rourke-Scarry and edited by me. Please rate and review this podcast wherever you’re listening to us. We’d really appreciate it. We also now have a website at birthmothermatterspodcast.com. Tune in next time on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption for Kelly Rourke-Scarry. I’m Ron Reigns.