Ron Reigns:
Welcome, and thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption with Kelly Rourke-Scarry and me, Ron Reigns, where we delve into the issues of adoption from every angle of the adoption triad.
Speaker 2:
Do what’s best for your kid and for yourself, because if you can’t take care of yourself, you’re definitely not going to be able to take care of that kid and that’s not fair.
Speaker 3:
And I know that my daughter would be well taken care of with them.
Speaker 4:
Don’t have an abortion, give this child a chance.
Speaker 5:
All I could think about was needing to save my son.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
My name is Kelly Rourke-Scarry. I’m the Executive Director, President and Co-founder of Building Arizona Families Adoption Agency, The Donna Kay Evans Foundation, and creator of the You Before Me campaign. I have a Bachelor’s degree in family studies and human development and a Master’s degree in education, with an emphasis in school counseling.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I was adopted at the age of three days, born to a teen birth mother. Raised in a closed adoption and reunited with my birth mother in 2007. I have worked in the adoption field for over 15 years.
Ron Reigns:
And I’m Ron Reigns. I’ve worked in radio since 1999. I was the co-host of two successful morning shows in Prescott, Arizona. Now I work for my wife, who’s an adoption attorney, and I’m able to combine these two great passions and share them on this podcast. So
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Today we’re going to talk about cesareans, or C-sections, and adoption. A lot of women wind up having a C-section. We’re going to talk about that and what it looks like in terms of the adoption world, and the similarities and differences. Just so that we can be more versed on what is happening to the baby, the mama, when they’re in the hospital.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
According to the americanpregnancy.org, a cesarean birth happens through an incision in the abdominal wall and uterus. The normal cesarean procedure averages 45 minutes to an hour. That seems like a really long time, but not to a woman who has been in labor almost 24 hours.
Ron Reigns:
Right. So that’s you, I’m assuming?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yes. And so the 45 minutes to an hour is like, “Lucky girl.”
Ron Reigns:
Yep, absolutely.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
The baby is usually delivered in the first 5 to 15 minutes, with the remaining time used for closing the incision. According to the CDC, approximately 31.7% of all births for 2019 were by cesarean section. That’s a lot of deliveries, that’s almost-
Ron Reigns:
It’s almost a third.
Ron Reigns:
And that’s what surprised me most as I was going through the information, I was like, “Almost a third of women or of pregnancies are delivered through cesarean.” That surprised me.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
It doesn’t surprise me because I work with so many pregnant women, and that sounds about right. I mean, if I was to go back and start counting on my fingers which are having natural or C-sections, then that would make sense. So yeah, that sounds right on. I will say that there’s a lot of benefits for the adoptive family, and we’re going to talk about that, when a birth mother has a C-section, because of the timing. Actually, let’s just jump into that right now.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
When you have a mom who knows that she’s going to have a C-section, she may have had a C-section in a prior delivery. Or maybe during her pregnancy the doctor has decided, and we’ll talk about some of the reasons why, that she needs to be a candidate to have a C-section. It gives the adoptive family time to schedule their flight. They know when the baby is going to be born, the timing is there. They can strategize and plan, rather than waiting for the phone call, go time, and try to catch the next flight out. And yeah. And have that one scene with Macaulay Culkin, Home Alone, when everyone’s rushing to the airport, and yeah.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Rather than having that, if a birth mother is having a C-section it allows everybody … Everything is really neat and tidy and planned. And with the craziness of, “My water broke and I’m headed to the hospital.”
Ron Reigns:
And chaos ensues, right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
With a C-section, they normally allow one person to be in the delivery room. And sometimes it is the birth father, sometimes it is the adoptive mom. I’ve never had it be the adoptive father, just saying. I’ve never had that. We’ve had it be the adoptive case worker. Sometimes it is the birth mother’s family member, like her mom or maybe a close friend. It really just depends on who she wants to be her support person.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
If it’s the adoptive mom it’s usually because they have formed a really close bond. And then it’s sometimes between the birth father and the adoptive mom. Normally the birth father will prevail if they’re very close and in a relationship. But if not, then the adoptive mom sometimes gets to go in.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And like I said, I’ve had all my case workers be in for deliveries and a C-section. It’s not for everybody to be in there. I have not had a C-section so I can’t speak from experience. But from speaking with people, you’re in a surgery. I mean, it’s a serious surgery.
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And it’s one that … I think people, because they’re so common, people are like, “Yeah, it’s just a C-section.” I mean, it’s a serious surgery.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And I think that the babies, one of the other advantages of a C-section, is the babies don’t come coneheaded. They’re not stuck in the birth canal, they come out with the beautifully shaped heads. They haven’t had to go through the birth canal, so their faces aren’t all swollen and bruised and looking like they just fought a war, and then came out.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
But it’s not something that you just automatically choose. I mean, obviously the best is to have a natural delivery and not have to go through surgery. With a C-section, some women are very afraid to have one because it is a surgery and it is a significant thing to happen. In the end the scars are very, very small. You can still wear a bikini afterwards. And then they used to gut you like a fish and there goes the bikini look.
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
But now they do it in such a way that you can’t see anything, when you’re wearing a bikini.
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So that’s a plus. Ron, do you want to go over the 10 main reasons for having a cesarean section?
Ron Reigns:
According to americanpregnancy.org, 10 main reasons for having a cesarean section include placenta previa, breach position, cord prolapse, fetal distress, cephalopelvic disproportion, diabetes, preeclampsia, birth defects, multiple births, and active genital herpes.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right. So when I was going through this, I was talking with Adam and he is like, “What is the really long one?”
Ron Reigns:
Okay. Cephalo … Oh, I’m sorry, cephalopelvic disproportion. Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
It means that the baby’s head and shoulders are large, and they would worry that the baby would get stuck.
Ron Reigns:
Couldn’t they just say that, large head and shoulders?
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yes.
Ron Reigns:
Sure it’d be a lot easier to pronounce. I’m just saying.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yes, no. Yeah, absolutely. And I think all of my children had this and they weren’t diagnosed with it.
Ron Reigns:
At least it felt that way.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
All my babies did have big heads. They all had really big heads, like really big.
Ron Reigns:
Oh, they still do. I’ve seen your kids. No, your children are beautiful, on both sides of that family.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Thank you, yes. No, but that’s funny. Anyway, so yes. And again, I have seen, with our birth mothers, a lot of them, these are all situations in pregnancy that you would deal with in an adoption situation. And nothing outside of this is really a surprise. Like I said, we’re doing this for 16 years and helping hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of women with an adoption plan.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
All of these, I have seen multiple times and our birth mothers have fared very well through their C-section. And after you’ve had a C-section one time, sometime the doctor will approve you to have what they call a VBAC. And that means that you can have a natural delivery after a caesarian section on the second one. Not everybody is a candidate for that-
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
… but right some people are. And some of the birth mothers I’ve worked with have said, “You know what? No, thank you. I don’t want to chance anything, and I want to just go straight to the C-section. I liked it, I’m familiar with it. I’m comfortable. I don’t want to try something new.”
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And I don’t blame them. I mean, with my second child, I was very close to having a C-section because she was my almost 24-hour one. And I didn’t want it at that point, because she was my second child, I’d already been in labor and delivery for almost 24 hours. And at that point I felt it would be insulting to not finish.
Ron Reigns:
Right. In for a penny, in for a pound. “If I’m going to do this, I’m going to go all the way.” Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right, right. I’m getting credit for this. And luckily I didn’t have to have one, obviously I wouldn’t have said no. But it was one of those that you’re thinking, “I’ve worked this hard and now I could have just gone in and done this to begin with.”
Ron Reigns:
Right Now with the multiple births. Obviously that means twins, triplets, quadruplets.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
We’ve had twins delivered natural.
Ron Reigns:
I was going to ask that. Is that the standard though to have a cesarean if it’s a multiple birth? No. Okay, that’s just one of the reasons that somebody does.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Correct. As long that’s two. Obviously if it was three then, then yes. But with two, no. One of the birth mothers actually that I was case managing earlier this year had a set of twins, and she had them natural.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And she actually had them in such a way that I think if they had known the babies were positioned like this, they may have actually opted for a C-section for her, but she did great. But one of hers is what they call sunny side up. So it was turned where he was facing up, rather than down when the baby came out.
Ron Reigns:
Okay.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And so yeah, she delivered twins, no problem.
Ron Reigns:
Good for her and good for the twins.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. Yes. Having never had a set of twins, yeah, that sounds like you should get the T-shirt when you’re done.
Ron Reigns:
Well, I think by that point everybody sees that you have twins, so that’s your T-shirt. It’s like, “Okay, she did it.”
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yes, yes. And she was just a champ, so it was … Yeah. Sometimes labor delivery can be super fast, and it was.
Ron Reigns:
Well, my grandparents used to say about my mother, that by the time she had me, she could have a baby in the morning and still make it to church. So I guess she was old hat at it, just a pro. She slide them out like a luge.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Wow. That’s crazy. I mean, yeah, I have to say that I … It is, in my mind, absolutely a miracle that women have a baby. And I know with my second child, and I had epidurals, obviously it wasn’t working because I felt everything. But I was able to, with some assistance, after I had the baby, after a little bit, I got up and I walked to the bathroom. I mean, it was like, “Okay, we’re good.”
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. And to me that’s incredible. You just had a baby and now I can walk.
Ron Reigns:
Yeah. The whole process is miraculous to me. And I commend anybody that has done it and will do it, it’s unbelievable. Whether it’s through cesarean or through natural childbirth, it’s awesome to me.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And I also think that one thing with cesarean is that you don’t feel anything. I mean, they use a nerve blocker in your spine and you don’t feel anything. And that go on the opposite with when you’re having a natural delivery, sometimes birth mothers will opt for an epidural and sometimes they won’t.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And I think it’s really neat how adoptive families support and empower birth mothers when they are making medical decisions regarding their pregnancy. And whether they choose an epidural or they don’t choose an epidural, just being there to support them with whatever choice they do choose. It’s just really, it’s one, again, of those bonding moments.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And those moments are what are going to carry on in your memory and that you’ll be sharing, if you’re the adoptive family, with your child for the rest of your life, their life. And it’s just, it’s one of those things that I think is just amazing and it’s beautiful. And it’s one of those situations that, in the adoption world, we get to smile over and celebrate. And yeah, I really enjoy that.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So again, if you’re a birth mother and you’re going to be having ceasarean delivery, or if you’re an adoptive family and your birth mother’s going to be having a ceasarean delivery, know the positives are that you can plan around it and everything can be neat and tidy, and you’ve got everything ready to go.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Also, when you’re in the hospital, you normally stay for 72 hours, the birth mother does. And so it gives the birth mother and the adoptive family time to spend at the hospital together to continue bonding. And it gives the birth mother time to watch the adoptive family as they interact with the baby. And it gives her that peace of mind.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Because sometimes they’re really rushing moms out if they’re having a natural delivery. 24 to 48 hours and they’re out the door, and sometimes people need a little bit more time than that. I think it’s so funny to me when people try to make sure they can maximize their stay. Like the episode in The Office, when they didn’t want to go in too early because they wanted to make sure they got the full 48 hours. So that’s funny.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Another thing with a C-section is you don’t have to worry about going past your due date. I have never met a pregnant woman, ever, that has said, “I want to go past my due date. I want to deliver late.” They all think they’re going to deliver early, everyone.
Ron Reigns:
“Just two more extra weeks. I need that extra time.” So you’ve never seen that once? That surprises me, and you’ve met some pregnant women.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
No, I’ve never seen it. I’ve never seen a woman that would be happy to go past her due date. Everybody always thinks they’re going to deliver early. And when you go to the doctor with a birth mother and the doctor says, “Oh, you know what? I think we miscalculated your due date. I think you’re probably not as far along as we thought,” it feels like you just got grounded and put in time-out and that you have to do an extra few weeks.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I mean, it really does. There’s nothing to ruin someone’s mood if you tell them, “Oh, sorry, you’re only 22 weeks, not 24, so you’ve got an extra two weeks.” It does, it feels like shoots and ladders and you just got put back at the start.
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I’ve never seen anybody happy about that. They’re happy in the reverse-
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
… if they find out they’re further along because that means they don’t have to go [crosstalk 00:15:50].
Ron Reigns:
That’s two less weeks that you have ahead of you. Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
But one thing that is really funny to note is, I would say 75 to 80% of every pregnant woman I’ve talked to thinks that she’s going to go early. That she is so big, there is no possible way that she will make it this long.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it’s funny. And they say that doctors practice medicine, which I think is a really good term. Because with my second child they told me she was going to be so big, that’s why they induced me., Actually back then they induced me at 37 and a half weeks and they don’t do that anymore, but they did. And she was just going to be too large, just so, so big. And she was six pounds, nine ounces.
Ron Reigns:
Which is tiny, right. Well, maybe not tiny, but it’s small.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
A little peanut. You know what I mean? She was not a big baby.
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And that was with ultrasounds and everything else. And it’s just one of those things that you think, “That was way off.”
Ron Reigns:
Yeah. “How long you been doing this? What are you, just practicing?”
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
It was one of those, yeah, one of those moments that you just tilt your head. I know that when she came out I looked down at her, and the doctor looked down at her and we were both just staring at her. And because we were both expecting this ginormous baby. And her head was big, but so when her head was coming out, you’re thinking, okay, maybe you’re going to get a big baby. You don’t quite know yet.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And then she comes out and were looking at her and nurses are pounding, because she was my one that had the cord wrapped around her neck twice. But that was not what we expected. I mean, it was a shock. I was expecting a toddler to come out. I didn’t think she was going to be this itty-bitty little baby and yeah, she was little. So that was kind of funny.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
But yeah, so that being said, there are advantages, don’t panic if your birth mother is going to have a C-section. I know some people get really nervous, don’t panic. You’re going to be in good hands. Even though they’re practicing medicine,
Ron Reigns:
They’ve got this part down.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
They’ve got this part down. These are really common, they’re scheduled. As an adoption agency, I would say our biggest hurdle with C-sections are reminding the birth mothers as we’re driving them to the hospital that, “No, we cannot stop at a fast food place on the way,” because you cannot eat prior.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And that has been a struggle sometimes because when you’re pregnant, speaking from experience, you want to eat. And if you know that you’re not going to be able to eat for an extended period of time, that doesn’t make a pregnant woman happy.
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I had a situation once where a birth mother was driving … I’m sorry, a case manager was driving a birth mother. And she had called me and said, “I’m so sorry. I couldn’t not take her to Sonic.” And I said, “You cannot take her on the way to have her deliver by C-section. You can’t do that.” And she said, “She was going to get out of the car. I had no choice.” And I thought, “Okay.” And you know what I mean?
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So for a case worker, I mean, “Oh my gosh, I can’t have a pregnant woman jumping out of my car. I guess we’ll just sit at the hospital and we will have to wait longer for them to actually perform the surgery.” Anyway, that was one of-
Ron Reigns:
What are the effects of … Because I don’t know, I’ve never been through any of this, but what are the effects of say, going to Sonic right before? Do they have to-
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
You can’t. Right. Because they don’t want you to aspirate or anything like that. They want your stomach to be empty in case they do have put you out.
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
If something isn’t going well during your surgery and they actually put you to sleep, rather than you staying awake, they want to make sure that you are okay and-
Ron Reigns:
Can breathe the whole time.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right. So in any surgery, when you’re put out, they don’t want you to eat prior. And like I said, when you’re pregnant, food is a really big deal.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I knew another couple that the wife wanted a piece of chocolate cake from Cracker Barrel. And she sent out her significant other to go and get one, and they were out. And so he actually had the store manager write a note to his pregnant significant other saying that they were out of cake, because he was afraid to go back and not have the piece of cake. So he had a handwritten note from the manager to give to her, just to [inaudible 00:20:18] her.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So food is a really big deal, and it’s not something that should be taken lightly. Yeah, so that’s one thing. Anyway, that being said, yeah, the only issues we’ve ever had really are trying to convince a birth mother that you cannot eat prior to going to the hospital.
Ron Reigns:
Right.
Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So there’s lots of positives in having a C-section, if that is the way that the doctor feels is best and safest for both mom and baby. And know that you will be in good hands.
Ron Reigns:
Thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption. If you’re listening and you’re dealing with an unplanned pregnancy and want more information about adoption, Building Arizona Families is a local Arizona adoption agency and available twenty, four, seven by phone or text at six, two, three, six, nine, five, 41, 12. That’s six, two, three, six, nine, five, four, one, one, two. We can make an immediate appointment with you to get started on creating an Arizona adoption plan, or just get you more information. You can also find out more information about Building Arizona Families on their website at azpregnancyhelp.com.
Ron Reigns:
Thanks also go out to Grapes for allowing us to use their song, I Don’t Know, as our theme song. Birth Mother Matters in Adoption was written and produced by Kelly Rourke-Scarry and edited by me. Please rate and review this podcast wherever you’re listening to us, we’d really appreciate it. We also now have a website at birthmothermatterspodcast.com. Tune in next time on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption for Kelly Rourke-Scarry. I’m Ron Reigns.