Ron Reigns:
Welcome, and thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption, with Kelly Rourke-Scarry and me Ron Reigns, where we delve into the issues of adoption from every angle of the adoption triad.

Speaker 2:
Do what’s best for your kid, and for yourself. Because if you can’t take care of yourself, you’re definitely not going to be able to take care of that kid and that’s not fair.

Speaker 3:
And I know that my daughter would be well taken care of with them.

Speaker 4:
Don’t have an abortion, give this child a chance.

Speaker 5:
All I could think about was needing to save my son.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
My name is Kelly Rourke-Scarry. I’m the executive director, president, and co-founder of Building Arizona Families adoption agency, the Donna Kay Evans foundation, and creator of the You Before Me campaign. I have a bachelor’s degree in Family Studies and Human Development, and a master’s degree in education with an emphasis in school counseling. I was adopted at the age of three days, born to a teen birth mother, raised in a closed adoption, and reunited with my birth mother in 2007. I have worked in the adoption field for over 15 years.

Ron Reigns:
And I’m Ron Reigns. I’ve worked in radio since 1999. I was the co-host of two successful morning shows in Prescott, Arizona. Now I work for my wife, who’s an adoption attorney, and I’m able to combine these two great passions and share them on this podcast.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Birth mothers, preparing for labor and delivery. When you are working with an adoption agency and you’re pregnant and you have created an adoption plan, when you’re about 32 to 34 weeks, it’s time to start talking with your adoption specialist about how you would like your hospital experience to go. For some women that’s a hard conversation because again, it’s like when you’re choosing an adoptive family, things become more real.

Ron Reigns:
It’s concrete, again, Okay?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
It is, it’s one of those milestones as you’re walking through your adoption plan.

Ron Reigns:
Up til that point, you can’t even really picture going, Oh, I will be in the hospital having a child.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right.

Ron Reigns:
But then when you start talking about it-

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right, and you create a plan. And so you’ve got your adoptive family that you’ve chosen. Now you’re creating a plan. And in that plan, you specify how you want everything to go.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And the reason for it is, it’s almost like a letter to the hospital.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
To say, hey, when I go to the hospital, I want either the adoptive family, my caseworker, or this person, or my friend in the delivery room. I want baby handed to me, or I don’t want to see baby at all, depending on what the preferences are.

Ron Reigns:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I want so-and-so to cut the cord. Everybody has their own vision of what it will look like. Some women, if have had children before, don’t want to initially see the baby.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And I think it’s always good at some point to see the baby to say goodbye. It’s hard, but then you do have finality in that aspect.

Ron Reigns:
Right. And you’ll always have that memory of, okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Correct. And my biological mother did not have an opportunity to have that moment.

Ron Reigns:
No.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And that haunted her.

Ron Reigns:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And so I always recommend that you, at least at some point during your hospital stay, at least take some time with the baby.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
If you’re worried about struggling with bonding and attachment, maybe do incremental visits with the baby, maybe 15, 20 minutes, every couple hours. And that way-

Ron Reigns:
And then taper it off.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right. And not have these extended periods. Cause those extended periods are where it starts to get really hard. So, when you are creating a hospital plan, again, this is something that you write out. It’s sent over to the hospital, so everybody understands exactly what your wishes are. Sometimes adoptive moms are in the delivery room. Sometimes adoptive dads are in there, and they stand up at the head behind your shoulder.

Ron Reigns:
Uh-huh (affirmative).

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
A lot of times the caseworkers are in there helping them coach through labor and delivery, and really just showing support for the birth mother in her most vulnerable time.

Ron Reigns:
Right.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
During labor and delivery, and then when it’s time to say goodbye to the baby in the hospital. And a lot of times that’s not even the goodbye because these are open adoptions. And so there’s another visit before-

Ron Reigns:
Right.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
The family leaves the state-

Ron Reigns:
And then phone calls and videos.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And then phone calls, and Skypes, and visits, and it’s just like a see you later.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
But when you create a hospital plan, it also gives the adoptive family a really clear picture of what you want.

Ron Reigns:
So they know what’s expected of them as well.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Correct.

Ron Reigns:
From the birth mother.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Because most hospitals, if there is occupancy, at least in the state of Arizona, if they have the occupancy to where it’s okay, will allow the adoptive family to have a nesting room.

Ron Reigns:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So the babies can go back and forth between the birth mom’s room and the adoptive parents nesting room, which is really kind of neat. Cause everybody gets to bond that way.

Ron Reigns:
That’s very neat.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
The questions that you’re going to be filling out in a hospital plan are, who do you want to be with you during labor?

Ron Reigns:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And these are not set in stone. So if you go into labor and your best friend came in from out of town and you decide, oh, this is who I want. Then absolutely you can change that.

Ron Reigns:
Right. It’s more of a guideline than-

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Absolutely a guideline.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And that’s a really good way to phrase it. It shouldn’t be a hospital plan. It should be a hospital guideline. Think about if you want pictures taken.

Ron Reigns:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And when? When the baby is born, who would you like the baby handed directly to? And would you like to continue to see your baby? Now I have had moms that say, “I want the baby taken out of there immediately. I don’t want any contact. It’s too hard for me. This is what I want. I don’t care what you say. I want to not see the baby.”

Ron Reigns:
Right.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
If that’s the case, then we’ll even request after she has the baby, for the baby to go to the surgical floor.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I mean not the baby, I’m sorry. The birth mother to go to the surgical floor if that’s available, and that way she doesn’t have to hear babies crying and things like that.

Ron Reigns:
Right. Cause that would definitely be hard.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
That is hard. That is hard. Yeah. Especially if she wants no contact. Also, if you’re planning on naming the baby, if you and the adoptive family are going to name the baby together, or if you’re going to name the baby, and then they’re going to change the name. If that’s what you agree to.

Ron Reigns:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
However that goes. Also, who’s to visit you in the hospital.

Ron Reigns:
As an adoption provider.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ron Reigns:
You’ve been part of thousands of adoptions over the years. Hundreds?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Hundreds.

Ron Reigns:
Hundreds? Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Maybe a thousand.

Ron Reigns:
So what percentage actually make one of these hospital plans?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
95.

Ron Reigns:
Okay, so most.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ron Reigns:
And do they normally stick pretty closely to it?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I would say 80% of it.

Ron Reigns:
Sticks. Okay?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ron Reigns:
And have you heard any really outlandish? Because I think of riders from rock stars, and they have to have green M&Ms in the room, and whatever else. Does anybody come up with something that you’ve been shocked by? Like, oh my God, I’ve never been asked that before.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
No.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I would say probably the things that I would look at and be not surprised, but kind of, okay. The aversion to hospital food, just fast food only.

Ron Reigns:
Okay, right.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So we’ve got our case workers running to and from-

Ron Reigns:
Burger King or whatever.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Jack in the Box, right. Yeah, I don’t know.

Ron Reigns:
Nothing.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Everybody’s pretty even keel.

Ron Reigns:
Okay. Pretty standard.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And the hospital is a really emotional situation for everybody.

Ron Reigns:
Uh-huh (affirmative).

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I mean, there’s joy, there’s tears, it’s the happiest day of somebody’s life, and it’s the saddest day of another’s.

Ron Reigns:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And so it is, it’s this mix and this myriad of emotions that are up and down and this rollercoaster.

Ron Reigns:
Yeah.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And it’s basically like the pinnacle of the adoption. I mean, that’s the moment that everyone is waiting for. That’s the grand finale.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And so when you’re creating the hospital plan, and you’re preparing yourself, just be open and have an open heart and think long-term. So, if you’re deciding, do I want the adoptive father in the delivery room? Well, short term, would you be uncomfortable with that? Well, yeah, maybe, but if he were standing up at your shoulder, would he really see that much?

Ron Reigns:
Right. He’s not going to get the full-on view.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
But, in the long run, is that a moment that you would cherish later on? That he was part of that experience. So just breaking out the long-term and the short term thinking of what is the best thing for you, for the baby, and for the adoptive family.

Ron Reigns:
That makes complete sense, right.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. So I would say with an open heart, think about those kind of things. One thing that a lot of birth moms also find a lot of peace in, is seeing the adoptive family with the baby. Because they can get a visual of what it will look like.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And when they see their baby being fed or comforted by the adoptive family, it will bring peace. Yes, there will be some jealousy and it will be hard.

Ron Reigns:
Right. But they can also-

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Ultimately.

Ron Reigns:
Again, concretely see that this is something that they’re helping to facilitate for a family and for their child.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And I have to say, I am getting chills as I’m saying this, there’s so many times that a birth mother will have the proudest look on her face as she’s watching them with the baby, knowing that she did the most beautiful thing in the world. It’s really neat to watch. So, the goal of the hospital plan is to gather an understanding of what the wishes of the birth mother are.

Ron Reigns:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So that they can be accommodated by the hospital, the agency, and the adoptive family. And that’s really a big deal. So again, it’s not only, so everybody knows it kind of gives a birth mother a preview of what this is going to look like. And it lets her think about, I think anytime you’re going to walk into something and you know that it’s going to be hard, mentally preparing yourself is always a really good thing to do.

Ron Reigns:
Yeah.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And kind of envisioning, okay, this is how this is going to look. This is how I picture this going, and kind of walking yourself through it a few times before you actually jump into the cold pool. It’s easier.

Ron Reigns:
Right, kind of a practice run.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Sure. It’s like sticking your feet in the water.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And testing it out.

Ron Reigns:
And not to mention, I mean, we’ve talked many times about how the reality never is quite what your perception of it is, but at least it gives you some idea of what you’re heading into when you go into the hospital.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. So, I think when you are at that moment, when you’re sitting down with your caseworker.

Ron Reigns:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And you are starting to create your hospital plan. I think the best thing that you can do is ask your caseworker what other people have done in the past, what she or he has seen, what works really well. Different hospitals have different rules and regulations, and how they do things, and how they handle adoptions. And gather all the information, and then make an educated choice, and know that regardless of whether you choose, who’s going to be in the delivery room, and who’s not going to be, and how many minutes you want to hold the baby afterwards. You’re going to make the right choices, and having faith in yourself, and believing in what you’re doing is the most important thing in the end.

Speaker 7:
What I liked about building Arizona families, is they didn’t try to push me in one direction or another. I explained why I was interested in it, and asked a lot of questions, and they were open and honest, answered my questions very well. For me, they were the easiest to work with. And it just seemed like I had the best conversation. I was the most relaxed with them. Be open and honest with what’s important to you, and how you feel, and what you’re looking for, and expect that same respect back to you. You’ve got to find an agency and people that are willing to address your own concerns and questions, and make you feel comfortable because it’s a tough process to enter in, and you need to be able to feel like you can be yourself. The agency is very supportive, and they are really there to help you with each step of the way. They just provide a lot of guidance when you need it most. And they’re very honest and transparent with the process.

Ron Reigns:
We have a pregnancy crisis hotline available 24/7 by phone or text at (623)-695-4112. Or you can call our toll free number 1-800-340-9665. We can make an immediate appointment with you to get you to a safe place, provide food and clothing, and started on creating an Arizona adoption plan, or give you more information. You can check out our blogs on our website at azpregnancyhealth.com. Thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption written and produced by Kelly Rourke-Scarry, and edited by me, Ron Reigns. If you enjoy this podcast rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts. And as always thanks to Grapes for letting us use their song I Don’t Know as our theme song. Join us next time for Birth Mother Matters in Adoption for Kelly Rourke-Scarry I’m Ron Reigns, and we’ll see you then.