Ron Reigns:
Welcome and thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption with Kelly Rourke-Scarry and me, Ron Reigns where we delve into the issues of adoption from every angle of the adoption triad.

Speaker 2:
Do what’s best for your kid and for yourself because if you can’t take care of yourself, you’re definitely not going to be able to take care of that kid and that’s not fair.

Speaker 3:
And I know that my daughter would be well taken care of with them.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Don’t have an abortion. Give this child a chance.

Speaker 4:
All I could think about was needing to save my son.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
My name is Kelly Rourke-Scarry. I am the executive director, president and cofounder of Building Arizona Families adoption agency, the Donna K. Evans Foundation and creator of the You Before Me campaign. I have a bachelor’s degree in family studies and human development and a master’s degree in education with an emphasis in school counseling.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I was adopted at the age of three days, born to a teen birth mother, raised in a closed adoption and reunited with my birth mother in 2007. I have worked in the adoption field for over 15 years.

Ron Reigns:
And I’m Ron Reigns. I’ve worked in radio since 1999. I was the cohost of two successful morning shows in Prescott, Arizona. Now I work for my wife who’s an adoption attorney, and I’m able to combine these two great passions and share them on this podcast.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
We hold adoption information seminars across the United States. We’ve been doing it for the past couple of years just to recruit adoptive families, speak to adoptive families about adoption, to educate them, to let them see and meet us in person. Because if you’re working with an adoption agency in another state, it’s really hard to never have face to face contact with them.

Ron Reigns:
Right.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And we only work with Arizona birth mothers, but we do work with adoptive families in other states. We now clarify that due to the Paul Peterson event.

Ron Reigns:
Oh, okay. So that’s changed the industry, or at least your agency.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Well, it’s never changed- We’ve only had in state birth mothers.

Ron Reigns:
Right.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
But it’s something that should be stated because-

Ron Reigns:
You let it be known is what I mean. Yeah.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Correct. Yes. But no, it’s always been our practice. We do not bring in other birth mothers from other states. So, when we have these informational meetings, we speak with lots of families that are just beginning the adoption stage and hoping to adopt. And we’re often asked the same questions and we’re going to share some of those because let’s learn more about adoption, right?

Ron Reigns:
Why not?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
What are birth mothers looking for in an adoptive family? Number one thing is love.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
They’re looking for a stable family who can provide their baby with opportunities and a lifestyle that they themselves cannot provide. And that’s the most simple answer I can give. They’re not looking for the mansion or the private jet.

Ron Reigns:
I mean they wouldn’t turn it down but…

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
The castle.

Ron Reigns:
Right, the castle. Kelly’s castle.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yep.

Ron Reigns:
Okay. What if they have other children? Will they still be able to get-

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yes.

Ron Reigns:
A birth mother to-

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Choose them?

Ron Reigns:
Be interested?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yes. So, some birth mothers want their child to be the first child and other birth mothers want already an existing family with children. So, I would say 50-50 as to what a birth mother wants. So half-

Ron Reigns:
Right, so it may turn some off.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Of the birth mothers-

Ron Reigns:
But others they may say that’s exactly who I’m looking for-

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Yes, that’s what they’re seeking.

Ron Reigns:
Somebody with a family.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Correct.

Ron Reigns:
And so would that be the same for instance, a single mother?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Sure, absolutely the same. Some are looking … Actually, I don’t know that I’ve had one specifically say I want a single mother, but I’ve had birth mothers that are very open to single mothers.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And they may have been raised by a single mother. Yes so that is not looked at negatively at all.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
In that aspect.

Ron Reigns:
Okay. Let’s go to open adoptions. Is that like co-parenting? No?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
No, that’s a real big misconception.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So when you have an open adoption, it is an opportunity for there to be a connection and information exchanged.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And maintained. And that’s really what it is. It’s not a co-parenting. This is not a exchange of custody or sharing decision making at all. This is strictly an opportunity to be a part of the child’s life and the adoptive family’s life.

Ron Reigns:
Now by and large in a situation like this where it’s an open adoption, is it generally this is your birth mother, I’m your adoptive mother or father? Or is it a lot of times like this is your aunt so-and-so and don’t exactly tell how?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
No. We always encourage families to be honest.

Ron Reigns:
Honest and open.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Because-

Ron Reigns:
Okay, that makes sense.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
We want to make sure that with regards to just about everything, especially adoption, you want to make sure that you build trust. And when you have told the child a lie about who they are and their story-

Ron Reigns:
At some point they figure it out.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
It’s hard. Sure. When they’re younger and they’re under three, a lot of times birth mothers, if they have a very open adoption, will have a special name that the child will call them. They won’t even say birth mother. We went to a conference this summer, the National Adoption Conference and there was a birth mother telling her story and she said that her son that she placed for adoption calls her Bunny.

Ron Reigns:
Okay. That’s just her nickname.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
That’s just her nickname.

Ron Reigns:
From the-

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And that’s his bunny. And so, there is a way that you can do this that’s loving and respectful and endearing-

Ron Reigns:
On all sides. Right.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
On all sides. Yes.

Ron Reigns:
How long do you have to wait for the baby to be placed with you?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So that really depends on how open you are in terms of your preferences. So, a family that is very open with their preferences in terms of the type of adoption they want to do to which races they’re open to, if they’re open to drug exposure, mental illness on the birth parent’s history. The more open they are is how long they’ll have to wait. So, if they’re open, it’s going to happen a lot faster because there’s going to be more opportunities that they can be presented to birth parents. If they have a lot of preferences, and they’re very firm in those preferences-

Ron Reigns:
Well those preferences become limitations.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Exactly. And very well stated by the way.

Ron Reigns:
Oh thanks. How about the cost? I know it’s not cheap to adopt. How do families do this? How do they afford it?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I think that is probably one of the biggest misunderstandings in adoption.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Is adoption expensive? Sure, but so is life.

Ron Reigns:
Right. And having kids in general is expensive.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Correct. We are lucky enough there is an adoption credit that a lot of families are able to take advantage of that is huge, that helps. A lot of families apply for grants. People talk a lot about adoption and the fees and the cost, but what’s interesting is you don’t hear as much talk about the cost and fees of fertility treatments. There’s not as much negative press about the cost of fertility treatments and what’s really interesting about that is an adoption success has a higher probability than many fertility treatments.

Ron Reigns:
Really?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So that’s an interesting take on that. I would recommend that adoptive families or families that are looking to adopt educate themselves. Educate themselves on prenatal drug exposure, what an open adoption is, what a close adoption is, what a semi-open adoption is, what an Indian Child Welfare Act adoption is. Multiples. Normally you see twins. I have never seen triplets or quadruplets.

Ron Reigns:
No?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
No, because those are usually conceived via fertility treatments-

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Or as twins.

Ron Reigns:
So that’s somebody that’s trying to get pregnant.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Correct.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
I would also recommend that people research adoption professionals, attend adoption information meetings, check people’s references, do soul searching. Find yourself and really what matters to you, and that will help you with your adoption preferences in the long run. Because if you just grab a preference sheet and just start checking boxes, is that really going to work for you in the end?

Ron Reigns:
You’re not prepared. Right.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Right. And you need to be prepared.

Ron Reigns:
So with these meetings, the adoption information meetings you brought up, where do they find those? How?

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So they would go to our website.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
We have an events page and, on the events page, will be a list. We have them locally here in Arizona and in other States as well. And they are free, there’s no charge. They get to come and learn all about adoption and ask questions. We often have other adoptive families present so that they can ask those families questions as well. I also recommend that families come up with a financial plan and a budget when they’re going into an adoption plan. Because that way nobody’s scrambling, everything is laid out. It allows you to focus on your adoption and your journey rather than worrying about the money aspect.

Ron Reigns:
Right.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Completing a home study is always the first step in an adoption plan. If you can view adoption as a set of stairs, the home study is the first step and then you move up the stairs from there. Also, in your home study, your home study worker is going to be a great adoption resource. You can talk with them about who they work with regularly, recommendations that they have, they can give you adoption educational materials, so that’s really important.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Also don’t put your life on hold during your adoption journey. Don’t spend every day waiting to be chosen by a birth mother. You still have to live life.

Ron Reigns:
Yeah, you’ve got work to do. You’ve got other family to deal with-

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Memories to make.

Ron Reigns:
Yeah, memories to make. And this can’t be your entire life, but it’s a big chunk.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
It’s a big chunk. Yes.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Also, really developing an understanding of respecting people’s opinions and that people do process thoughts and feelings differently than others. So your spouse may process a feeling of excitement or disappointment differently than you, and that doesn’t mean that his is right and yours is wrong or yours is right, his is wrong. It just means that you’re two different people. Understanding that will help you build stronger relationships as you’re gearing toward your adoption.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Also, we recommend that families who are adopting don’t do a baby shower before the baby’s born. This is an adoption situation. Not every adoption goes through.

Ron Reigns:
Right. Unfortunately.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
So we recommend that until the termination of parental rights is done.

Ron Reigns:
Hold off on that.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
And the baby’s born, hold off on that. What a lot of families now are doing is called a Sip and See, and that is kind of like an open house and there’s refreshments, and they can see the baby. With an adoptive baby, it’s very controversial as to whether or not you really want to pass the baby around because the baby’s learning to bond to you. So, handing the baby to 25 people in an hour is probably not the best idea, especially with a newborn. I think that having people see the baby and stop by and spending that one-on-one time with them. After the baby’s born and the adoption risk has gone, I think that is a much emotionally safe choice. I think that you will be happier in the end rather than a baby shower. And if you’re dead set on a baby shower, then just wait until after the baby’s born and with you.

Ron Reigns:
Yeah, there you go.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
The other thing that is always asked, and it’s a funny question, but friends and family always want to know, what do we give to an adoptive family? The same gifts.

Ron Reigns:
The same thing you would give-

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
The exact same gifts that you would give to… There’s still a mom and a dad. They’re still having a baby. It’s the same gifts. Adoption signs or canvases are cool. Mugs are cool. Adoption books-

Ron Reigns:
Baby clothes.

Kelly Rourke-Scarry:
Baby clothes, ornaments, jewelry, cute onesies, gift cards always appreciated. The same. And adoptive families want to be seen and heard and viewed just like anybody who’s having a baby. So, give them that opportunity.

Robin:
My name is Robin, and I placed my daughter almost three years ago. Placing my daughter for adoption was one of the hardest but best decisions I made in my life. I wanted to have her, but I knew it wasn’t in my best interest at the time. I’m Native American, placing our kids for adoption isn’t something we do. I chose to place my baby outside of the tribe because I wanted her to have a better life. As much as you want to think that we have our little reservations and we’re in our own little world, it’s a struggle of its own that I don’t wish on kids to have to grow up in. I see pictures of her and she has everything at her fingertips that I wish I could have given her. And I did give it to her in a way because I gave her to her new family.

Robin:
There’s open conversations there still, and I don’t feel like I’m missing anything. I don’t. Like I’m filled in with them. I see her milestones and I can get a grasp of how she is with people, the way they talk about her. They talk about her like she is this great being and she is because that’s their gift. And it’s amazing to see that they accepted their gift so proudly.

Robin:
I’m thankful for Building Arizona Families. I don’t know where I’d be without them. Three years later they’re still in my life.

Ron Reigns:
Thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption, written and produced by Kelly Rourke-Scarry and edited by me, Ron Reigns. We also want to thank Building Arizona Families, the Donna K. Evans Foundation, and the You Before Me campaign. A special thanks goes out to Grapes for letting us use their song I Don’t Know as our theme song. You can check out our blogs on our website at azpregnancyhelp.com and you can call us 24 hours a day with questions or comments about the podcast or adoption in general at (623) 695-4112. That’s (623) 695-4112.

Ron Reigns:
Make sure to join us next time on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption for Kelly Rourke-Scarry. I’m Ron Reigns. We’ll see you then.