Speaker 1:
Today we have a very special episode of Birth Mother Matters in Adoption. In part one of this two-part series, Kelly will be sharing her reunification story between her and her birth mother. And we’ll be talking to one of her best friends, Kim about their trip to meet Kelly’s mom, Donna K. Evans.

Ron Reigns:
Welcome and thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption, with Kelly Rourke-Scarry, and me Ron Reigns, where we delve into the issues of adoption from every angle of the adoption triad.

Speaker 3:
Do what’s best for your kid and for yourself. Because if you can’t take care of yourself, you’re definitely not going to be able to take care of that kid, and that’s not fair.

Speaker 4:
And I know that my daughter would be well taken care of with them.

Speaker 5:
Don’t have an abortion, give this child a chance.

Speaker 6:
All I could think about was needing to save my son.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
My name is Kelly Rourke-Scarry. I am the executive director, president and co-founder of Building Arizona Families Adoption Agency, the Donna K. Evans Foundation and creator of the UB4Me campaign. I have a bachelor’s degree in family studies and human development, and a master’s degree in education, with an emphasis in school counseling. I was adopted at the age of three days, born to a teen birth mother. Raised in a closed adoption and reunited with my birth mother in 2007. I have worked in the adoption field for over 15 years.

Ron Reigns:
And I’m Ron Reigns. I’ve worked in radio since 1999. I was the cohost of two successful morning shows in Prescott, Arizona. Now I work for my wife who’s an adoption attorney, and I’m able to combine these two great passions and share them on this podcast.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
I get a lot of questions about reunifying with my birth mother.

Ron Reigns:
Right.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
When I started the agency, I had not reunified with her at that point.

Ron Reigns:
You knew you were adopted, but you hadn’t contacted your birth mother?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Correct.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
I had not contacted my birth mother. We started the agency, Building Arizona Families in 2004. I had my third child in 2004 as well, almost born at the same time as Building Arizona Families. And we experienced some medical issues initially in the first two years with her, that prompted me to want to find out a little more about my medical history.

Ron Reigns:
That makes sense. Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
In addition, I was meeting with more and more women who were going through the adoption process, and at that time I was case managing birth moms. It was pretty much a two woman show at that point. It was myself and the other co-founder, Angie Penrose. I was obviously very hands-on in working with the moms and with the adoptive families. And it gave me a different perspective on adoption. The perspective that I had had, up until the point of being a few years into the adoption community, and the adoption social service world, was almost nonexistent. I was a school counselor, and I had worked with adopted children. In my master’s degree and my bachelor’s degree I had worked on studies of adoptive children, I’d read things. But again, it wasn’t something that I really embraced, being a part of the triad, being one angle was not something that I looked at and identified with.

Ron Reigns:
Did it seem unreal to you?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yes.

Ron Reigns:
In that it wasn’t concrete, you couldn’t touch it?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yes.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yes, because I had such limited knowledge of who my birth mother was. I had no picture of her. I had no name. I had just the hospital you were born in, the three facts that we talked about, knowing that she-

Ron Reigns:
PE is the one I remember. She loved PE.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Which turned out that I really doubted. And she was from a very large family, which she was. She was the third youngest of nine, and that she was 16.

Ron Reigns:
Okay. Right.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And that was all I had. And as a child, I didn’t talk to my adopted parents very much about adoption, because I wasn’t sure what their reaction would be. A lot of adopted children, and I was one of them, are afraid to talk about adoption with their adopted parents, because they’re afraid of hurting their feelings.

Ron Reigns:
Right.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
I fell into that category, and I didn’t want to hurt their feelings, so I didn’t talk about it.

Ron Reigns:
You just kept it in?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Right.

Ron Reigns:
Which is always good policy. You keep it in, you bottle it up. You try and push it down.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
No, absolutely not. That’s not what you do.

Ron Reigns:
You make it a little ball.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
No, that doesn’t help anybody, including yourself.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
So in 2006 actually, I believe it was October of 2006, I made the decision that it was time to start the process.

Ron Reigns:
Of reunification, or at least finding who she was?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Or at least trying to find who she was. At that time, all adoptions were closed. And I was adopted with the use of a private attorney. So, it wasn’t through an agency, there wasn’t an agency to contact. It was through an adoption attorney. So, when I spoke with my adoptive parents, and shared with them that I felt it was time in my life and my career, that I was going to begin the process of hopeful reunification. During this process, I asked them for their support and any further information that they had. They did provide me with the name of the adoption attorney, and I learned at that point that my adoptive mother had sent him a Christmas card every year-

Ron Reigns:
Really?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
For my entire life.

Ron Reigns:
Your adoptive mother did?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yes.

Ron Reigns:
Wow.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And so, that was something new. And when you’re looking for information as an adoptee, you really are looking for anything. You’re looking for any little piece. So, I would start to jot notes down. And I reached out to the adoptive attorney, and he was an elderly gentleman at that point. And he talked to me about my adoption, of what he remembered. He had told me that the records that he had no longer existed. Back in the day, at a certain point, they just incinerated them.

Ron Reigns:
Right. After a certain amount of time you got to, you’ll be overwhelmed with files.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Right. So, they literally incinerated them. Like in fire.

Ron Reigns:
That’s kind of sad, for you.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. So, I-

Ron Reigns:
Or anybody else going through that process.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
He informed me at that point that he wasn’t a regular adoption attorney. He was an attorney that had a relationship with the family physician that my mother had seen when she was 16 and found out she was pregnant. And had known that my adoptive parents were looking to adopt. What happened next was kind of a surprise. The attorney that did my adoption was still residing in Ohio, and said, ironically his daughter … He was flying out to spend some time with his daughter in Arizona, and was going to be visiting in the next two weeks, I believe.

Ron Reigns:
Just by chance.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah.

Ron Reigns:
Wow.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And so he did, and he asked if he could meet me. I got to meet him and his daughter, and we went to dinner. And he told me what he remembered. For him it had been 30-

Ron Reigns:
30-ish years.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah, 30-ish years. And it wasn’t a lot that he remembered. He remembered that my mom was very young, and pretty much what I had been told, that her mother had had a lot of children and she was a single mom at the time, and she just couldn’t raise another one. And that I came as a surprise. And so, he was very positive and talked a lot about my adopted parents and how amazing they are, and that was great to hear that they were so well liked by him. After the phone call I did the next step, which was I signed a petition and filled it out to the court in Ohio to have them open up my court case. The only way that they will be able to release my original birth certificate, and the non identifying information, which was more information than I currently had, would be if my birth mother had gone and signed a release, saying that she would allow the case to be opened.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
So I sent off the request, paid the $20 fee. About four weeks later I get a letter in the mail, and my mother had signed it. I called the clerk of the court to see if there was any more information, she could give me other than the birth certificate, which I had, and the page of non-identifying information. And she said that that was all they had. And she said that there were, I believe approximately 20 applicants that month, that were adoptees that had sent motions in, trying to ask if their records had been opened up.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And I was one of two, or three that was able to receive the information.

Ron Reigns:
Right.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. And I thought, wow, I never win any time, but I just won the lottery. And so that was really exciting. So, I was able to see her name. She didn’t list a birth father.

Ron Reigns:
So you saw her first name, not her last?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
No, I saw both.

Ron Reigns:
Okay, so it’s not like the non identifying information that we see now?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
There was also that as well. Yeah. That’s all changed. And so I learned what race she was, what religion she was, how tall she was, how much she weighed, that type of a thing.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And I was able to see the address that she lived at, at the time that she had me.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
So that was all really neat. So, I hired a private investigator. I found her first.

Ron Reigns:
Before the PI did.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
I did, I found her first.

Ron Reigns:
Good job.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. When I actually came in, it was hard to find her because she’d been married four times. So, the name kept changing, so it was a little hard to find her. What was very interesting was the address that she was living at, that she was pregnant and had me, was a block from where she was currently living.

Ron Reigns:
Really?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yes.

Ron Reigns:
So she’d gone all this way, and ended up a block away?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Came up full circle, and did that because she said that she wanted me to be able to find her easier. So, when I had gotten the paperwork from the court, she had signed it back when I was actually 22. And so, all those years had gone by that I hadn’t looked, that she was expecting me … She had thought when she turns 21, she’ll come looking for me. And I didn’t know that was her thought or feeling. And so that’s obviously a huge regret that I would’ve had more time.

Ron Reigns:
Yeah. That you didn’t do it sooner.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yes. And she had done everything that a mother would do. I mean, she had contacted unsolved mysteries, and they sent her back a letter saying, I’m sorry, we can’t help you.

Ron Reigns:
This isn’t really our forte.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Right.

Ron Reigns:
Right.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And so she saved that. So when I talk about meeting her a second, she hands me the letter-

Ron Reigns:
Signed by Robert Stack.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Pretty much, yeah.

Ron Reigns:
That’s cool.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And so on the paper that she filled out, that says that they were allowed to release my records. She wrote on there; I think it was like you have two brothers. I never stopped looking for you. And it was really endearing. I actually found her sister-in-law first, because when you’re doing research sometimes a relative will pop-up, and the phone number. So I found her, and ironically it was like the stars aligned, is kind of what happened.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
So she was one of the few people that knew that-

Ron Reigns:
That your mom had had [crosstalk 00:12:08] adoption.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yes, an adoption. And her husband is my mom’s brother.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And he’s younger than her. So, my mom is the third youngest of nine. And I spoke with the youngest’s wife, if you will. So, he was still in the house at the time.

Ron Reigns:
Right. Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And at the time of my birth, is what I’m saying.

Ron Reigns:
I see.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And so she had known that my mother was looking for me. And so, at first, she starts, I actually had a coworker call her. I just couldn’t do it. And she said hey, explained all the information. And she said, “Okay, yes, I think this is it.” And she went over to my mom’s house and brought her baby girl balloons to celebrate. Yeah. And we set up a phone call, I believe it was for the following day. And again, I had the coworker come over after hours and sit with me, and we made the phone call.

Ron Reigns:
Help you build up your courage and your … Yeah.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yes, we did. And we called her, and it was the beginning of a beautiful relationship. It started off with her asking me … Well first of all, I couldn’t understand her, at first. Her accent was so thick, and she spoke such strong West Virginia East.

Ron Reigns:
West Virginia?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
That I could not-

Ron Reigns:
Understand.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
It was a lot of, pardon, excuse me. Could you please say that again?

Ron Reigns:
Now, you spent most of your life to this point in San Diego and Phoenix area?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
I lived in Ohio and in Missouri until I was 12, and then from 12 to 18 in San Diego, and then from 18 on in Arizona.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
So I wasn’t real fluent in West Virginia East.

Ron Reigns:
What’s you talking about?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah.

Ron Reigns:
Gotcha.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
It was really thick.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And again, she would use some words that I wasn’t familiar with, like davenport. I didn’t know that was a sofa that was on your front porch. I didn’t know a lot of that kind of stuff. Davenport.

Ron Reigns:
Yeah, you told me that last time.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
I did. I did.

Ron Reigns:
Davenport is a good one.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
It is.

Ron Reigns:
So that’s what it is, it’s a couch on your front porch?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
So in that first phone call we talked a lot, and my coworker went home after that. And my mom and I probably spent the next eight to 10 hours on the phone.

Ron Reigns:
Wow. Just catching up?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And then all day the next day. And that was on a Friday. I took my best friend; she and I flew out the following Wednesday to go and see her. I didn’t take my husband at the time, and the kids because I really just wanted to focus on her and the reunification.

Ron Reigns:
You want her.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Right. And my best friend who went with me was amazing. She fit right in, and I knew that she would fit right in. When she shared with me that she has an aunt named Bama, I knew it was a match. I knew she would go and she’d be just fine.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
We got there and I was a nervous wreck.

Ron Reigns:
Of course.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
We wound up videotaping the whole thing, because my friend Kim insisted. And I thought she was crazy, but I thought what can it hurt? I can always just delete them later. And now I’m so grateful I did, because when I look back at them, I will say that it’s not the lifetime movie…

Ron Reigns:
Perfect, happy ending.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
It was, but it wasn’t like where the music slowed down and we ran to each other in slow motion. It was me thinking, I think I’m going to throw up, because I was so nervous.

Ron Reigns:
Right.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And I have a frozen smile on my face throughout the whole time, because I’m in utter shock. I have seen a picture of her. But to see her in person-

Ron Reigns:
Moving and talking, and just being there.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And being a real human being after wandering for 34 years, who this person was. It was just like probably waking up from a coma almost, after so many years.

Ron Reigns:
In a weird way, I can almost see that.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Getting out of prison after 31 years, that type of a thing. And so, we get off the plane and she’s waiting there, and she has an armful of roses. One for every year that she missed my birthday. And my brother Clarence was standing behind her, and he was grinning.

Ron Reigns:
So you’re not only meeting your mother for the first time, you’re meeting your brother-

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Right.

Ron Reigns:
For the first time.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Right.

Ron Reigns:
That’s huge.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
It is. As nervous as she was, and I was nervous too, both of us were really nervous, and I’m sure he was nervous. I didn’t ever ask, but I assume somewhat. And we had talked on the phone as well. It was surreal, is probably the best description. It was surreal. It was one of those moments that when you’re having a hard day, it’s always nice to go back and think about.

Ron Reigns:
Just kind of smile.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
But at the same time, you also think that was really awkward. I remember at one point she was hugging me, and she was crying, and I was still smiling. I was still frozen.

Ron Reigns:
Frozen in shock, plastered on smile.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And I believe that Kim was probably crying, because as an outsider looking in, and she has adopted children and biological children.

Ron Reigns:
Really? Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And so she got to see it from a different perspective. So, in meeting my mom and seeing her for the first time, I will say it was funny, because her personality really … She has a really strong personality, a really bold one. She’s hilarious. And it came through. She was hugging me and crying, and then she stopped hugging me and she pulled away a little bit, and looked at me and she said, “You’re short.”

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And I just looked at her and I said, “You’re shorter than I am.” And like it was-

Ron Reigns:
so she was shorter than you, and still?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah.

Ron Reigns:
Casting aspersions. Nice.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah. So that was funny. It broke the weirdness.

Ron Reigns:
The tension a little bit, right.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yes. And we really wanted to preserve that moment. And I’m sure that people in the airport were all looking at us and wondering what’s going on, because it was a little bit of a scene.

Ron Reigns:
Right.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And I’m not one that really likes to draw a crowd in that aspect. So, it was a private moment for me, but in a very public place.

Ron Reigns:
Again, making it a little more awkward. Good.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Right. Yeah. Especially when someone’s videotaping the whole thing. So, Kim Brains is joining us on the phone. She is one of my best friends in the world, who went with me on my first trip during my reunification process with my birth mother. And I thought it would be kind of fun for Ron and I to speak with her, and ask her some questions, and get her perspective of what it looked like. Now you’re an adoptive mom yourself.

Kim Brains:
Yes.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And you have two adopted children?

Kim Brains:
Yes, internationally from Ethiopia.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Right. And at the time that we went to Ohio to meet my birth mother for the first time, you actually had only had one adopted child at that time.

Kim Brains:
Yes. I hadn’t actually got to experience going to my children’s birth country and picking up my child. And that whole entire process that hadn’t happened yet. The first child we brought home, I stayed with the other kids and so I felt like I was really missing a piece at that point. And I remember being very excited about going with you, and being there to support you, but also being there to be a part of it on my end too, to see how that all felt, and to see how it played out, how it looked. It was just another part to a bigger puzzle.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
I think that’s a really good way to describe it.

Ron Reigns:
Nice.

Kim Brains:
Yeah.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
So if you can remember as we were getting off the airplane, and we’re walking through the airport, I remember being an absolute wreck.

Kim Brains:
Yeah.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
What do you remember?

Kim Brains:
I remember you were a wreck, well before getting off the plane, it was a difficult process. I guess and processing it was difficult, because there was a little bit of the fear of traveling. We were leaving our children, remember that Kelly?

K. Rourke-Scarry:
I do.

Kim Brains:
We were leaving our babies, our little ones behind. And we were on this journey together, and you weren’t excited about flying at that point. So, I was there, and I really felt I could be supportive. You’re so of strong and I had a chance to be that person for you, and that made me feel good. But getting on the plane and just feeling that nervousness that you had. It was something I could genuinely feel for you. And walking through the airport, it was just like … I remember it being empty, the airport and that long hallway. It just seemed like we were walking forever to go down and get a rental car. And just feeling like at any moment somebody could just turn around, and we’re not going to know who it is, and they can just pop up and it could be your family.

Kim Brains:
And it was something that we had talked about for so many years, and becoming friends with you and through adoption, just going on and talking about how it felt for you, what were your experiences. And so, I had years of background of what you felt and what you were already thinking. And all of those for me too, were just culminating into this moment where at any moment, any second, somebody could just turn around, and it could be your actual birth mother and brother. And it was just like [inaudible 00:21:48] anticipation was sitting in your heart and in my heart, just like what’s going to happen next? How’s she going to look? How is it going to go? Or is it going to be awkward. Are you going to hug? Are you going to run like in the movies, or is it going to be more subdued? So it was a lot of excitement, and a lot of feelings adding up to that moment.

Ron Reigns:
Now did you, as you were about to meet your birth mother, did you ever, just even for a second think, I can’t do this, I’m turning around and going home.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
I don’t remember. I don’t remember having that thought.

Ron Reigns:
Okay. Because I think I would, I think I would be like panicked and think, I can’t go through with it.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
I think I was really so nervous that I was thinking, I don’t know how to take my next breath, and if I do I’m going to throw up. I just remember that feeling. What do you remember of it, Kim? Do you remember?

Kim Brains:
Yeah. You were so nervous. I don’t think I’d ever seen you that nervous, nor have I ever seen you that nervous again. And I guess having adopted my second child, I can only imagine that feeling now. I could place it then, but now having flown to Ethiopia and picking up Neddy and getting ready to meet my adopted daughter for the first time, who was four. I remember being on the plane and feeling that same feeling, I remember seeing you feel at the airport. Getting ready to land, this is like a wedding or a reunification, or it is just the unknown. And it’s so … The adrenaline almost takes over and you’re just, you can’t breathe. And I remember you feeling like that and just watching you, and you were just … I don’t even know that you were talking. But the look on your face was just like kind of frozen, like what’s going to happen.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah.

Ron Reigns:
Now, I heard about her smile. Did she keep that smile on the whole trip, or was it just the beginning?

Kim Brains:
The frozen smile. You know what? I would say that it was a predominant smile. Yes, it was definitely … It was just not knowing. There was a lot to learn, and we can look back at that point and say, there was so many things to understand and learn. I mean, you’re meeting an entire family, she didn’t just meet her mom. She met a lot of people, and it was overwhelming and completely, almost a different culture altogether. And so, it was like being in another world, being in another land. And her and I stayed up a lot of nights, talking just talking so much, and trying to put it together, make it make sense, because it was still … Probably, I don’t know, Kelly, what do you think? Years away from making sense. It took time to put it together and make the entire experience.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yeah, that’s something that we’re actually going to be talking about in a little bit, but yes, absolutely. It did take a long time to compartmentalize everything, and put the whole puzzle together, and look back and say, “Okay, now I get it.”

Ron Reigns:
But I tell you what, it’s awesome that you had such a cool support structure to go out there, and to talk with you every night, and to just be there for you and say, “Okay, we’re going to work through this together. I don’t know these people, you don’t know these people, but you’re related to them and I’m going to help you.” And that’s neat.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Right, right. And I will say that as we got into the airport, and Kim is one of those people that can talk to anybody, anywhere, anytime about anything.

Ron Reigns:
Okay.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And so she can fit in anywhere. And I remember we went to the airport … I’m sorry, we went to the rental car location, picked up the rental car. My brother actually drove with us, and my mom drove her own car. And we got to the house, and at that point when we got to the house, I believe that my brother’s girlfriend and her children were over at that time and some other people. Is that right, Kim? Am I remembering this correctly?

Kim Brains:
I believe so, yeah.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And I remember turning around and Kim’s sitting there with a cigarette in her mouth, and a beer in her hand. And I thought, I didn’t even know that you smoked.

Ron Reigns:
She didn’t, until she went to West Virginia.

Kim Brains:
It felt like family to me.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
So-

Ron Reigns:
That’s awesome.

Kim Brains:
It’s like, we’re having a party. I’m just going to jump right in.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
And you did, very well.

Kim Brains:
And I did, yeah. I always remember thinking that I did feel at home with your family. They remind me of some of my family, difficult parts of my upbringing, my roots. Kelly and I joke around a lot that we’ve been related somehow, and this just goes to prove it. But it is a different culture all together, and a lot of times, I just remember your face was like … Because for me it felt a little like, okay this is sort of normal-ish, but for you it was like a really big … Like jumping into cold water, or just walking into another world.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Right.

Kim Brains:
And I remember Donna just being so genuinely herself, like you meet her, that’s who she is. What you see, is what you get.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yes.

Kim Brains:
End of the story. And I remember thinking it was so different, because the culture to how you were brought up, versus your biological family, and the different regions of the United States. But I thought, how are they related? It wasn’t making sense to me. But then there was one point where your mom yelled for a soda, and it reminded me of you. I’m like, there it is. She had your voice; she had your tone of voice. She was yelling for some diet soda, I think Kelly, I can’t remember, like, “Get get me a soda.” Or something like that. And I’d heard you say that a million times on the phone to your kids, like, “Hey kids, go get me a soda.” Or whatever. And I thought, how is that possible that they almost sound identical in every way, and they’d never even met? and I’m like, yep, that’s her mom for sure.

Ron Reigns:
That’s when it clicked for you. Okay.

Kim Brains:
It did. Because I also remember, a lot of our discussions were really deep, and still even after the proof is there, even after all these things, even after your mind knows, but your heart is like, what in the world? Like maybe, maybe not. Maybe, is this possible? Can this actually be happening? There’s maybe a little bit of a denial. Like I don’t know if this is the real thing. Did you feel that way Kelly? I remember we talked about that a lot.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
Yes, yes. It was surreal.

Kim Brains:
Yes.

K. Rourke-Scarry:
It was definitely surreal.

Kim Brains:
I don’t know if I ever told you this, I might as well on a podcast. It was overwhelming for me. I know it was overwhelming for you, and just being there and being empathetic to what was happening, and being involved, and having known your story, and being your friend, and all of those things, and having this love for your family. It was hard. The emotional part of it was almost draining a little bit. I don’t know if you felt like that in yourself, but I felt like I needed to take a breath for a second. I remember once, I think I just went and took a walk, because it was really surreal.

Kim Brains:
It was overwhelming. Like did this really happen? You and I stayed up on the phone so many nights talking about what it would be like if you met your family, who were they, where could they be living? What happened? What was your story? And I remember you sharing that when you were younger, you had created a story to sort of make everything makes sense in your child’s mind. And so, having that childlike story, sort of clash with your new reality, it was overwhelming. It was like, one side of the story that you created as a coping skill, had to meet reality. And those two meeting, that meeting place was a difficult place. It was very emotionally draining.

Ron Reigns:
Thank you for joining us on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption, written and produced by Kelly Rourke-Scarry, and edited by Ron Reigns. We also want to thank Building Arizona Families, the Donna K. Evans Foundation, and the UB4Me campaign. A special thanks goes out to Grapes for letting us use their song, I Don’t Know as our theme song. You can check out our blogs on our website at azpregnancyhelp.com. Join us next time on Birth Mother Matters in Adoption, for part two of our discussion with Kelly and one of her best friends, Kim Brains, about Kelly’s reunification with her birth mother, Donna K. Evans. For Kelly Rourke-Scarry, I’m Ron Reigns. We’ll see you then.